Episode 13: Working Mom Guilt
Mom guilt. We have each felt it and it can feel heavier in certain seasons. As working mothers, it shows up differently and navigating our way through it is an important part of thriving as career women and mothers.
But where to start?
Today we break down where it has shown up for each of us and how we have been able to combat it along the way.
Values exercise can be found here.
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Unknown Speaker 0:00
Be Where Your Feet are. So when I'm at work, I'm really able to embrace that role. And when I'm at home, that's where we talk about work boundaries, like I really want to be present with my kids. And I want to be all in at home. And that really helps me to like, quell any guilt. This is not your average business podcast, because here we are going to discuss how you hit your goals, without losing yourself, your values or your relationships along the way.
Unknown Speaker 0:34
We believe in the whole person. First, the long term hustle approach and demonstrating to our children with living a life full of purpose is truly about. We're here for the woman who is an aspiring entrepreneur, developing her personal brand, and staying open to the opportunities that come before her.
Unknown Speaker 0:49
We're here for the woman yearning to find businesses that align with her, her core being so she can feel in alignment with her life. Come on this journey with us as we navigate this very full season and pursue a life we love.
Unknown Speaker 1:03
Are you feeling stuck? Are you searching for a greater purpose? Are you craving connection? Perfect, you are in the right place. And we're excited to get you one step further than you are today. The three of us felt like we had to dedicate an entire episode to working mom guilt. This is something that all three of us have had to tackle in our careers since becoming moms. This is a subject that I'm very passionate about. Because I think that the trials and tribulations of being a working mom, coupled with guilt are why so many women leave the workforce. And I'm talking about the women that don't want to leave, but their guilt is so high. And unfortunately, in a lot of places, their support is low. So today, we're gonna dive into the ways that mom guilt has shown up for us and how we've navigated it to get to a better place. All three of us now own and love our titles of being working mothers, and we want to help other women to get to that place. So Kat, you and I had a really interesting conversation about the models that we had when we were growing up, and how that can really impact your view on motherhood. I think a great place to start the conversation would be all of us talking about the models that we had when we were growing up.
Unknown Speaker 2:30
Yeah, so my mom was actually in the military when I was little, she was an Army nurse. And she was deployed, which I cannot even imagine how hard this was when me and my siblings were one, three and five years old. And after that experience, when she came back, her and my dad decided that it was best for our family, for her to predominantly be a work from home parent. And that's the decision that they made and the sacrifices that they made to have that opportunity. And so my mom did other jobs when I was growing up like substitute teaching was a school nurse, a camp nurse. But her profession really revolved around spending as much time with us in the family unit as possible, which is so beautiful. That was her intention, what she wanted to do, and it was really impactful on my life. But once I became a mom, I started to navigate a very ambitious and demanding career that did not revolve around my children at all, you know, had really nothing to do with them. And I felt really lost. And I questioned what my role should be. And I kept thinking that maybe something was wrong with me or I wasn't maternal enough, or that I was selfish that I didn't picture that life for myself. And when my daughter first started daycare, who it really brought up all the feelings for me that I really needed to work through. Because when you're a little person, you're so impressionable. And I just remember conversations of people who were close to me talking about the daycare kids, but they were the naughty ones. And my husband and I decided that we were going to put our kids in daycare and I had so much fear around what that meant for them their development, what it meant for our relationship and what type of influences they would have on their life. And it was really hard to work through understanding for me it that that was someone else's viewpoint. And their projections, and I had taken that view on as my own. And I really had to check in with myself a lot. That that's great for them. But that was not my worldview. And I had a different outlook on that. And yeah, so I don't know, it's just really interesting reflecting back on the models that you have in your life. And note nothing's right or wrong, but checking in of what feels true for you, even if it wasn't modeled for you. So heavy. I'd love to know what kind of model did you have in your life and how does that impact you?
Unknown Speaker 4:54
Well, you brought up the daycare kids as being the night yeah, and I was that daycare kid but I wasn't it
Unknown Speaker 5:02
See your proof.
Unknown Speaker 5:04
I mean, was a little bit naughty, then maybe. But I loved daycare, I had a mom who always worked mom and dad both always worked. They both had to in order to make ends meet, it just wasn't even an option. I also grew up with aunts who worked and my grandma worked. So it was just a normal part of life. Yes, I had friends who had moms or dads who stayed home. So I definitely saw a good mix of both. But I never saw like the naughty kids that never felt better out of it. So I guess it just felt, it just felt like, this is what I'm going to do. Like if I have kids, they're going to be in daycare, and it's going to be great. I had the best experience the most awesome memories friendships to this day that we still keep in like random contact from those early years. I think it shaped like a really good perception. Or some people might have, like your mom leaving a one, three and five year old. Like I have a one three and five year old right now. So when you shared that part of the story, have you ever even connected with your mom about that? Like did she have mom guilt about though
Unknown Speaker 5:59
I'm sure? Yeah, I'm sure like, yeah, and I think that probably really shaped her worldview coming back of what she wanted her life to look like and what really felt in alignment for her and for my dad to, you know, go a different direction than maybe they had previously thought.
Unknown Speaker 6:16
Yeah, almost like making up for lost time. But any What about for you?
Unknown Speaker 6:20
Yeah, my mom had a couple of different like, odd or small jobs. But she mostly stayed home and my dad owned a business and my mom would function as the secretary. So like, often we would have to run errands for my dad's business, but it always had a McDonald's Happy Meal in the day of errands. So we were like on we'll go wherever. But I will say it's interesting, because I grew up with about like seven or eight women that I'm still close to. And back then a lot other moms stayed at home. But my best friend's mom always had a high powered career. Like she always had like, a dress suit on and she just, she was so hard working. But she also never missed like our basketball games, or like, on the weekend, she was like full in running us wherever we wanted to go. So I feel like I grew up with that example of like that you can be a working mom and still be really there for your family. Like they're a very close mother daughter, to this day. And so I think that that really helped me understand that that is a possibility. And when I was growing up, I had no doubt that I wanted a career. Like I don't know if that's everyone's experience. But like, I never thought I would be a stay at home mom, I was like, I want to work. I didn't know what that was. But I was like, I definitely want a career. And And today when I think about my seven or eight friends that we grew up really close, all of them have really nice, successful careers. So it's really interesting to think of like how that all happened, I just so happened to be in this group of women that are really ambitious, career wise. And I think that that's super, super interesting and super awesome. So I want to talk about the mom guilt and how it looked in the beginning of your careers because I know for me, it has evolved so much from when I was a first time mom. So Kat if you could talk about the shifts and what you did to improve from wherever you started.
Unknown Speaker 8:39
Yeah, so beyond what I shared about daycare, and that being an initial hurdle to overcome. Breastfeeding was another one for me for sure. So just for a little backstory, three months after my oldest Louise was born. On top of my role of being CEO in a company, I took on another part time job as a business coach, because I was really excited about this company. And I wanted that experience. And it required a decent amount of travel. And as I said, I was really excited about it. So I talked to my husband, we decided to make it work. But that meant meeting gone for three or four days in a row every few months for some live events that I would support. And that's when breastfeeding really became a struggle for me and and I know Abby knows the lifestyle all too well of pumping in airports and bathrooms and all of that. But I felt so determined to make breastfeeding work. Because I thought it was the only way to feed my daughter. I felt so guilty every time I thought about quitting. Or when I felt resentment bubbling up when I was in the bathroom stall pumping and all of my co workers were enjoying their dinner. And finally around 10 months I was like not producing enough I was really overwhelmed about it. And I was like alright, we're gonna start supplementing with formula and guess what My daughter did fine. And she's happy and thriving. And she honestly didn't give to tooths if her food was from me or from formula, and I think for me in that moment, like, quote, unquote, overcome that I needed to like see it to believe it, I needed to see that she was happy and thriving, and, you know, was doing totally fine without me being the food source for her. And so that was where the shift really happened. But I had a lot of attachment around breastfeeding and thinking that was the only way that was the best way. And I think a lot of women can relate to that, who, when you're in that reality of what breastfeeding means it sounds so fun, like, of course, all breastfeed, but when you're in the like, trenches of it, it's like, wow, this is a big commitment.
Unknown Speaker 10:48
Yeah. And we talked about that on our hike yesterday, we're like, there is so much pressure to make breastfeeding work. And Kat I know your backstory is being a dietitian, and studying breast milk. And, and even for me, it was like, I just thought it was like almost not a choice. Like you just like, you have to make it for your I'm for working women, especially in the United States, like our work schedules don't support that. Like, the society is like crushing us, making sure that we try to breastfeed but then they're not giving us the time, the room that anything to like actually make it work.
Unknown Speaker 11:29
Breastfeeding gets really complex to as a working mother, because a lot of it is pumping, too. So it's breastfeeding through pumping. And as I reflect with what you're saying, and just think about thinking about my own journey with this, I think I was using breastfeeding as a way to be like, I'm gone. This is my way to be a parent. Oh, totally. And even though I had a mom who always worked, she was home every night. And that wasn't my experience. Like I was a traveling saleswoman. And then I was a traveling salesman, who was a mom. So I was leaving Lucy, it was way harder when it was just Lucy than it was multiple kids that felt like a break sometimes when it was multiple kids. But when I was just Lucy, I was leaving my 14 week old with a husband, who was very, very capable, but also wasn't me. So what I could do is I could pump and I could feed my baby from far away, and I could still be a mom even far away. And it was an unhealthy attachment. Like looking back. It was an unhealthy attachment to it. It was this is the only way I can be a mom when I'm away. Instead of thinking of it as like a gift, I guess. So to say.
Unknown Speaker 12:29
Yeah, what's interesting about breastfeeding too, is like when you're on those work trips, or you're away, like a non breastfeeding partner can quote unquote, kind of check out sometimes of their responsibilities you could sleep in, you could turn off that part if you wanted to. But if you're breastfeeding, you have this thing every two hours that reminds you, it pulls you back into that role. And sometimes that for me because of that, I had some resentment bubble up of like, why can I just like sleep? And why am I waking up at 3am? And I have to do this thing. And for me, it was just a very interesting relationship I had to navigate. Abby, what about you? Is there anything that you've had to overcome in terms of mom guilt,
Unknown Speaker 13:13
a lot of it for me when guilt, like true guilt and motherhood comes up, it's about being present. So when I was gone, I was not checked out. But I was like, actually gone. So when I came home, I felt like I had to be 100% on even though making that transition, it's really, really hard. So maybe you're a person who travels, maybe have a partner who travels making that transition, like you need to psych yourself up. Sometimes at least I didn't have like, Okay, I'm turning off this hat and putting on this hat. And when the transition wasn't smooth, I was mad at myself. I was like, why can I do this? I've been away from my kids for two full days, why can I just turn that off and like be a present mom right now. So I think a lot of the guilt came with not being 100% of mom when I had the chance to be 100% of them. And it still brings up like so like that feelings about it. Like thinking about that was that
Unknown Speaker 13:58
hard being in that type of role. Because if you're out selling and traveling, you're present in that. But there's still like the admin work and the things you have to catch up on because you were like out of the office. So then when you were like trying to be present with your kids, you actually had this like mountain that was still
Unknown Speaker 14:13
at work, because work still goes on even for traveling, all the emails still come in. So you're in the back of your mind. There's that email to get back to that proposal to do my coworker needs this, this needs to get done. And also in my role, people didn't care that I was a mom, like no one asked me about my kids. So when I was there, it's like I wasn't even a mom. I'd like turn that part off of me. And I didn't want to Yeah, so there's like a lot of almost mom guilt on that side of being like this is a huge part of me like this is a huge part of who I am. And I can't even be her when I'm in this role right now, which is why I'm also so glad that we have these roles right now that we can be full moms full people who own businesses, working towards passions and hopefully are pulling a lot of other women along with us.
Unknown Speaker 14:52
Yeah, I think that's really hurting. We've talked about that. It's like there's careers where the company embraces the full you As a person, and there's careers where it's so segmented that you're like not supposed to show weakness, or be a mom in this role, and then I think that's really, really hard for women, because it's like, you can't, like your boobs are still gonna remind you that Yeah, yeah, the call from daycare or the call from school that someone's sick, it's like, you're still always going to be a mom, no matter where you are. So I think if companies can help women, just embrace that more and not shut it off, I feel like way more women would stay in the workforce and those types of roles. I know for me, so I was a nurse, and nursing. It's almost all female. So like, people were so supportive of the moms, because we were all going through the same thing. I mean, I was pregnant with like six other nurses at the same time. So it was like this shared collective experience, and supportive pumping. And people were always talking about their kids and always asking about kids, kids were all over all of our lockers, like, it was just, I didn't have to, like not be a mom at work. My patients, like knew my kids names, like, just really, really supported. But for me, the the hardest thing was, and I don't know where I got this, but I truly felt like motherhood was a timecard. And so if I was going to be a working mom, every other minute of my life needed to be dedicated to being a mom. And so I would like rush home, and I would want to spend every minute with Max and the only time I allowed myself to be Amy was when Max was sleeping. So like, if I was going to work out, it had to be during his nap time. And even on the weekend, and just like just go to the gym where I would, and then I would be like, Okay, I can go to the gym, like it was really bad, I would go to the gym. And I would only work out for one half hour. And then I would like rush back home and like Rush in the house injuries like what is your like, deal like that we're fine. It's you that's doing this. So I know that a lot of women can relate to that. And it's just this like, living more life and understanding that like your bond with your child. First of all, that's just not a sustainable way to live. Not at all. So I was just, I had one child, but I was like fried because I was every minute was spoken for the way that I was choosing to do motherhood. And then over time, you just learn like, Okay, I would have to coach myself specifically, I'm like, Okay, today, I'm gonna take 45 minutes, and he is fine. And Drew is telling me I should do this. And I would coach myself. And that's how things went. And I just got more used to it. And now I understand that you can be you can function. So well, like Abby was saying, like, I'm so present for my kids when I'm with them, because I've taken care of myself outside of that, and no one naps anymore. So like,
Unknown Speaker 18:09
like, and it's important for your kids to have relationships, like one on one with your partner to know like, if you're always present, you're not giving that opportunity for them to create a special relationship or with a grandparent or someone else.
Unknown Speaker 18:23
That's such a good point. I'm so glad you brought that up, Drew would literally be like Amy, you're not letting me be a dad. Like you're not letting me play. He tells me still today, we've got three little boys now. And he tells me he's like, I really enjoy the time when you're not here because they are so distracted by you. Like, you know, I'm like their person that they always run to, they always want me. So he's like when you're physically gone. It lets us like bond, and they have a pizza night. And I know for some women listening, that could sound kind of offensive. Like they really enjoy the time without me but I've really learned to embrace it because I'm like, I want them to have that special relationship. They have a tremendous male role model. Like, I've got to get other ways sometimes so that they can have that. Okay, so next let's talk about some mantras or belief systems that you guys have put in place to help you really embrace your role as a working woman.
Unknown Speaker 19:29
So for daycare, as I talked about, that was something that I overcame my mantra is really that it is a good thing for other people to bring them in to love and cherish my daughter during the day and it's a good thing for people to have influence on her who are different from me and are going to expand her worldview and make her a more empathetic person. And I think it's important for me to understand how dynamic that we all are as humans and how we have so many identities, as we've talked about, and I know that in order for me to thrive and to feel whole, I need to honor all of the pieces of myself all of my titles, and my kids are going to get a calmer, more inspired happier mom when I allow myself to live out my passions.
Unknown Speaker 20:13
And if you remind yourself that on the hard days, especially, it's like, okay, this is what I'm doing. I'm doing it for a very good reason. Keep on going forward. Yeah, cat, I know that you have mentioned before that you like to pick your kids up at 4pm. So my mantra to myself is just because another woman has a different situation or chooses a different situation. I don't have to feel guilty for that. So I'm or the first time you mentioned that. I'm like, why don't I want to pick my kids up at four? Oh, wait, I have some very good reasons. Like I look like 10 of them. Yeah, the initial reaction is Oh, my gosh, should I want that? Like, should I also want to be with my kids, but extra time? Yeah. But I've tried that and doesn't work. Because I'm thinking about the emails that are coming in. I'm thinking about the extra work that I could have gotten done. So if I work right, until five o'clock, I know that I can be present in like how Amy and I were talking before I know that I can be present and actually be with them. Yeah, when if I ended my work day early, I wouldn't get that same.
Unknown Speaker 21:07
Yeah. And for Aileen, she works out between four and five. So she picks her kids up at four, that critical piece of who she is and how she stays sane and healthy would be gone. Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 21:17
I consider that my commute. So I'm like, I need a transition between working. And between motherhood, I've really found that. And so when I work out, I think of it as a commute. And I think a lot of us, no matter what your job is, they have lost like people aren't going into the office anymore. And a big piece of feedback is like, they miss that commute or that time to themselves between their roles. And so like adding something in like that, I think is just like really smart way to, to give yourself that time. Because like motherhood is very demanding for me right now. It's like three little boys is so demanding. So, but the mantra that I use for working motherhood is that I really want to lean into my roles. So I often say Be Where Your Feet are. So when I'm at work, I'm really able to embrace that role. And when I'm at home, that's where we talk about work boundaries, like I really want to be present with my kids. And I want to be all in at home. And that really helps me to like, quell any guilt because we have these really great connections and time together. And then another thing that I do is I address my mom guilt when it comes up. So I think a lot of people just accept the guilt, or they make a change because they feel guilty. I really like to have my rational brain involved in my mom guilt. So if I start to feel guilty for something like, Okay, I had to miss a T ball practice, because I had dinner with my co hosts. If I start to feel guilty for that, I come up with the reason that I'm making the decision. So I would say something like I'm making this decision because I feel really passionate about helping women find their purpose in life. And so you have that, like, you know why you're doing what you're doing. And then you can like redress. Like I know, I'll see Max after TiVo. I'll ask all about it. And I'll be there next week. Like it's just this exercise to like, help you center yourself where you're at, and not just chalk your guilt up to like, Yep, I should feel that I'm a terrible mom, I missed a T ball practice. So that's one exercise that I really tried to do.
Unknown Speaker 23:46
So I think a big common theme, even what you shared there, Amy is you're bringing yourself back to your why. And your why is really rooted in your core values. And I think when you understand what you value in your life, it makes it so much easier to make decisions and to like, I know this sounds cliche, but to live in alignment, because you know exactly what's important to you. And as we've all shared, there's different things that are important to each of us. So if you are someone who is still getting clear on what your values are, maybe you're feeling some mom guilt about certain areas, maybe you're prioritizing things that you shouldn't if you want a really valuable exercise, head to pursuing her purpose COMM And we have a workbook there that you can download and learn what your core values are so that you can live more in alignment
